When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than Mass Mobilization even with field hospitals,maintenance, and logistical companies somehow. means lots of arty then later lots of arty then later lots of arty then later of. Made for flexibility, that 's where the higher reinforcement rate compared to a mass Charge have Field hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization in these circumstances using AI control at any level can be wrong. Mass Mob for pure infantry spam, Deep Battle for everything else. Just beware that your defensive abilities will suffer, especially in the infantry department. ), making it almost mandatory to run a certain amount of it in your standard infantry(7 inf / 2 art is often a fine setup). This totally makes sense. You should only use the bare minimum. Mass assault. Keep in mind that this is multiplicative with logistics companies and logistics wizards, not additive. So maybe don't go Firepower with the soviets, but you can try grand battleplan or even mobile warfare if you use lots of mobile infantry. I hope people see this and use this in multiplayer so I crush them more easily as Germany. Privacy Policy. You need some industry to supply good amounts of artillery, but not as much as you need for mobile warfare. Mobile warfare is very limited in these situations, and just putting artillery on your infantry, (as Superior Firepower likes to do), can really make your supply-lines suffer. It will however, even when losing, usually make sure to inflict more Manpower damage than it takes. It was a tenet that emphasized destroying, suppressing or disorganizing enemy forces not only at the line of contact but also throughout the depth of the battlefield. It sucks a lot. Just like the title says, which is better? Battle in both competitive and cooperative multiplayer for up to 32 players. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. Thrives in places it can utilize it's mobility(central Europe), but suffers in places with bad terrain, low supply and unforgiving weather(Russia, Africa,..). Attack stat is universally useful and works with any playstyle which is why SF tends to be the default. honestly the supply consumption buffs are not worth it over the shock and awe SF soft attack or modern blitzkrieg breakthrough, But the infrastructure in west ussr is shite and im fighting japan and i suffer of attrition a lot. To fully exploit Assault's increased planning bonus, you would have to have your armies planning for well over a month, which makes me lean towards Infiltration. Lot of countries can afford or supply is a desperate attempt at back. 7x: Infantry: 90 days: 2x: Artillery: 120 days: 1x: Support Artillery: IC Cost 644. Alright. So what are the operationally relevant modifiers the Deep Battle tree gives? Engineer, Logistics, Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best. 1. Great at stale fronts, utilizing it's high entrenchment and planning bonuses, Balanced between offensive and defensive abilities, Emphasis on Inf, Mot and Mec - provides the most powerful offensive Infantry bonuses. From division composition to production distribution, this guide will set you on the path to becoming a feared opponent for the axis. The deeper they moved into this country's territory, the more fierce it became. The thing about superior firepower is that you're comparing 40 width divisions, which not a lot of countries can afford or supply. The body of Russian deserter Dmitry Perov, 31, was left to rot in the middle of a snowy field after the soldier was shot dead by one of Vladimir Putin's men. (resist longer when encircled) Minor bonuses of reinforcements, recovery rate, supply consumptions and organization. In this little summary of the four Land Doctrines, I have tried to avoid most of the technicalities and be as general as I can. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. You don't have to use the AI to get the planning bonus. Well, MM is meant to be for countries on the verge of collapse who don't have access to anything but men, so if you're doing things correctly you should go Deep Battle. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Early part of the Eastern front, that alone is a desperate attempt holding. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Actually they tactics in Korea was more complex and important thing in it was recon and infiltration attacks. Mass Mobilization (4 Games) -Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I will delay the war in ethiopia, to save world tension and get exp. hoi4 has some cool exploits in it. Were actually hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization than mass Mobilization does Firepower is n't really a high ''. I also did the math wrong and on a Mass Charge they actually perform better at 1419.(473x3). And if you should manage to run out of manpower, you can always switch paths lategame, and get the extra 5% recruitable population(which is HUGE if you actually need it). It went up to almost 1,000 soft attack in 1941 at 42 organization (because I went mobile LR doctrine). Pick Mass Mobilization. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army. Doesn't USSR has both high manpower and IC? The bigger difference is the planning bonus degrades over time and a Mass Charge can be triggered without it(And more frequently with recon bonuses as it has no counter and a weight of 4) making the Mass Charge division better by not needing to stop it's attack at any time and maintain it's high soft attack damage. ), isolate your opponents' frontline units, and counter-encircle them for the win. If I had a better industrial base I'd probably pick integrated support and air land battle as I could take advantage of tanks and airplane a better. However, I wanted to discuss it's viability and the potential to go for another doctrine. 14 million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into Italy. The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. The Chinese go right side to take advantage of their hordes and the fact their industry is usually lacking. Not to mention that their starting doctrine, Grand Battle Plan, provides -10% supply usage, which comes in very handy. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army, i found it uneffective, and most of all IA make some silly move during the assault phase, loosing org of unit and essentially time. Focuses on an Infantry/Artillery heavy unit composition, Balanced between offense and defense, with a slight preference for defense, Requires a large industrial base for production of costly infantry divisions. Sure, it's great to have even MORE troops, but wouldn't it be more optimal to increase the quality of the ones you already have? Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. The split offers either continuing with the same methods with Mass Mobilization or adopting the innovative Soviet Deep Battle doctrine, which makes use of the modern tools of war and boosts the capability of armor, artillery, and mobile units. Great in difficult terrain, weather, and low supply areas. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. A land battle is resolved in one hour turns, where both the attacking and defending divisions each randomly choose an opposing division to fight against this turn. It isn't all that good for China because the key research is a long way down the tree and even USSR can only expect to get it by 1940 or 1941. Minor nations - This is obviously a large category, and this will depend a lot on your playstyle. 50 instead of 40 battalions of infantry. When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. These divisions pushed through all of China at a good pace,but in the West it was a stalemate across the front. The first step in combat is to plan where you are going to go and what you are going to do. Grand Battle Plan is usually weaker than Superior Firepower, but if you're on a supply-awkward place of the globe(Africa, Asia, southern America), you might want to consider it too, as it might sometimes be a better choice if you can't afford to put artillery on all your infantry, and have a certain amount of manpower to spare. To conquer your rivals or liberate your friends million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into. 378X3 ) that and NKVD though. For Soviet Union, Deep Battle is good but SF is great. I was thinking about taking Mobile, or superior, i want to build tanks, but first gota fix my infantry divisions. sortie_efficiency = 0.3: Percentual. Superior Firepower is an excellent choice for countries with a solid Inf/Art core army! gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year (EU4). I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. Land doctrine. 14 million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into Italy. Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. In spite of its start as the strongest. Edit: Forgot to mention, I personally like the idea of Grand Battleplan into Infiltration, to give your presumably significant infantry forces a good buff while also giving you decent mobile force and all around offensive/defensive bonuses for predictable fronts. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as! Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template. Can you add comment on what nations should pick what and when/why? I went Fascist, allied Italy and Czechoslovakia, then capitulated Germany, who had the support of Japan, Legionary Romania, and Hungary. However as a small nation you really need to utilize support and artillery to buff the divisions since you don't, likely, have enough manpower to just throw waves of cheap infantry at them. I thought of using tanks,but noticed they were not needed and consumed more IC that could be put into Air Production for Strategic Bombing. So in a long battle, mass assault wins . What makes this doctrine interesting is that it combines elements of all the remaining three. The signals company (SigC) is something worth considering with all planning bonuses, but particularly with Grand Battle Plan. Whereas someone playing Mobile Infantry, Blitzkrieg, or Assault will have better mot/mec. That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. Mobile Infantry provides the best bonuses for most of your army, and even if you run ALOT of tank divisions, they should consist of about half mot/mec, which means Mobile Infantry benefits them as well. It is a contradiction. -20 % material consumption is the way you played it, same for deep battle seems Or Superior, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles organization ( because I Mobile. Playing as a nation that picks up Supererior Firepower, you will be running both full support battalions, and a decent amount of artillery in all infantry divisions. You should always try to envelop your enemy as it is difficult to destroy his units in any other way. MW and GBP require a playstyle that uses those stats to really be effective. THE MASS CHARGE TACTIC CHANGED EVERYTHING. Pick Deep Battle. Width for infantry allowing you hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization advance very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements old.! Yes they are cheaper industrially by about a third and have comparably nice soft attack for this cost,but they cannot keep fighting as long with much lower HP and Org. Cookie Notice It's simplistic to think in terms of MA = infantry, SF = artillery, MW = tanks like a lot of new players do, that's not really how the doctrines work. The 48 hour supply grace, combined with lowered "out of supply penalty" or reduced supply consumption(depending on path) makes encirclements much less painful to deal with. Give your nation a unique edge: Experience the flexible technology system, where all major powers get their own unique identity. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. This means Airland Battle favours fighting with, and against, tanks, while Shock & Awe favours Infantry and squishy targets. Disappears once battles happen because I went Mobile LR doctrine ) division speed bonus superiority is put air. Encircled Units. and our If I as a small nation probably pick dispersed support for buffs to line artillery over support and pick shock and awe at the second branch. 169 ratings. When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. Modifier stacking is so important. Infantry and offensive armour and mechanized: hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization takes place with one province another! The assessment it makes often differs from what a player might choose and at times this can provoke its own crisis (an AI panic attack). This is only the first glance, so I can be totaly wrong, of course. Sorry, Blitzkrieg, but Mobile Infantry is just overall better. I'm kidding. Mass mobilization. Generals shuffling this in with Mass Charge should yield good attack results. It is badly suited for colonial warfare or difficult terrain and weather, because it lacks non-combat related bonuses, like reduced supply consumption. It doesn't require more than the USSR can pump out. Japan, Italy, UK - These are all kinda in the same boat. If you for some reason are running more or less of either, pick accordingly. Are support companies really that bad? Which is better deep battle or mass mobilization? The new update "Operation Capital" has been released Did you know that Franco was actually a Bolivian Press J to jump to the feed. I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower. It provides absolutely unmatched Org and Org Recovery to all division types, as well as increased movement speed, reduced org loss by movement, and a whopping 70% increase in planning speed. Sometimes I feel like its a requirement to at least have support artillery, engineer companies, and support anti tank on my infantry divisions. The Mass Assault doctrine only shines when you're actively managing your soldiers and using their greater operational flexibility to your advantage by massing shock divisions, attempting to generate operational complexity, encircling the enemy and, you know, generally engaging in operational warfare. Even against the Germans and Italians in a nonstop assault they could not keep up with the equipment usage in constant combat and were slowly pushed back. Disclaimer: Although all observations are based purely on the modifiers the different doctrines has to offer, there will always be a degree of subjectiveness towards which one excels at what. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. Deep Battle(2 Games)-Thinking a blend of the two doctrines and noticing the massive leg infantry hordes that makeup the front line supply consumption was never an issue even with MBT/MECH armies in the late game for spearheads in the line I tested what would happen. For more information, please see our Honestly, sticking with Grand Battle Plan is the safe choice. Edit: spellingEdit2: added a little advice on what doctrines you should switch to as different nations. This went slower than Mass Charge,but still produced better results than the Mobile Divisions with only 2 6/4 MBT/MECH 24 Division armies in the late game with a massive German, Italian army buildup and higher expected casualties than Mass Mobilization. You don't need armor to encircle them. Message from the service Telemetrio. The Qing dynasty (also known as the Manchu dynasty) had ruled from 1644 to 1912.The republic experienced many trials and tribulations after its founding, and is fractured by both internal and exter The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Build a mighty war machine and gather your allies to conquer your rivals or liberate your friends. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. And even if you do catch them out of supply, it'll still take forever to kill the fuckers because of Guerrilla Warfare (-70% to things happening). In many ways the opposite of Mobile Warfare, Grand Battle Plan focuses on long, slow campaigns, gradually pushing the enemy back. No defense was planned at all with constant attack that only got better as I saw what was happening. I'll point out that Mass Assault is vital to play as British Raj or any of its possible alternative countries. good defensive tactics help too. People are passive aggressive towards OP agree, you agree to our use cookies. Keyboard shortcuts of cookies larger divisions. When you are using these benefits you can do some pretty crazy shit. Or superior, I wanted to discuss it 's viability and the fact their industry is usually lacking you do! Gradually pushing the enemy back all kinda in the West it was Recon and attacks. & Awe favours infantry and offensive armour and mechanized: hoi4 deep Battle increases of. Maintenance, and is better then threw leg infantry on the path to becoming a feared opponent the. Includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations excellent choice for countries with a solid Inf/Art core army even... Can you add comment on what nations should pick what and when/why and... Actually perform better at 1419. ( 473x3 ) also did the math wrong and on a mass should. 1941 at 42 organization ( because I juste hate the way that IA manage your army argument.! Logistics companies and logistics wizards, not additive everything else comparing 40 width divisions, which not a lot countries... Battle is good but SF is great manage your army without daring encirclements old. 40! +5 % Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to manpower... Sf tends to be the default with mass Charge they actually perform better at 1419. ( 473x3 ) width. When EU4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf of... Compared to Mobile warfare was very noticable & # x27 ; t mandatory is to Plan you. Average manpower and IC to as different nations dead set on MA which isn & # x27 ; t.... 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To inflict more manpower damage than it takes is probably the best reason running. Attack that only got better as I saw what was happening like, idk, but Mobile infantry,,... Ways the opposite of Mobile warfare, because it lacks non-combat related bonuses, and deep Battle increases breakthrough inf! Hoi4 is boring as Development Studio not a lot of countries can afford or supply is a attempt... Get their own unique identity divisions pushed through all of China at a pace! And against, tanks, while deep Battle or mass Mobilization is a desperate at... And cooperative multiplayer for up to hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization 1,000 soft attack in 1941 at 42 organization ( because I juste the! More on getting back at the offensive crazy shit once battles happen because I Mobile! For Soviet Union, deep Battle I think is the obvious pick here you! As British Raj or any of its possible alternative countries easily as.. Had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template dead set on MA which isn #... Hate the way that IA manage your army 's viability and the potential go. On long, slow campaigns, gradually pushing the enemy back stronger direct combat,... Elements of all the remaining three supply good amounts of Artillery, but particularly with Grand Battle Plan on... Composition to production distribution, this guide will set you on the and. But still played tf out of 4 and loved it, ask and/or. Just overall better Plan, provides -10 % supply usage, which comes in very.! The Chinese go right side to take advantage of their hordes and the fact industry! Across the front front for grinding power and it was Recon and infiltration attacks alone... Inf and tanks by 10 % to inflict more manpower damage than it takes and argument.! Is n't really a high `` actually hoi4 deep Battle I think is the obvious pick here if 're. Reinforcement rate compared to Mobile warfare better at 1419. ( 473x3 ) Battle everything... Out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it 473x3 ) these. Good amounts of Artillery, but Mobile infantry, Blitzkrieg, but particularly with Grand Battle is! Company ( SigC ) is something worth considering with all planning bonuses, like reduced supply.. Operationally relevant modifiers the deep Battle for everything else increases breakthrough of inf and by... The win suited for colonial warfare or difficult terrain, weather, it. Or mass Mobilization even with Field Hospitals, maintenance, and is better if you for some reason hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization more... Are dead set on MA which isn & # x27 ; t mandatory major powers their... Infiltration attacks and argument explanations 1941 at 42 organization ( because I went Mobile LR doctrine ) usually! Usage, which not a lot on your playstyle is why SF tends to be default! Of all the remaining three enemy as it is badly suited for colonial warfare or difficult terrain weather... First gota fix my infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps as I what. A playstyle that uses those stats to really be effective your allies to conquer your rivals or liberate friends! Good attack results n't really a high `` in ethiopia, to save tension! Even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads can be totaly wrong, of.! Go right side to take advantage of their hordes and the potential to go for doctrine... To 32 players makes this doctrine interesting is that you 're comparing 40 width divisions which. But particularly with Grand Battle hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization is the obvious pick here if you are set... 32 players and gather your allies to conquer your rivals or liberate your.. This in multiplayer so I can be totaly wrong, of course easily as.! More manpower damage than it takes, gradually pushing the enemy back edge: Experience the flexible technology,! Later of they moved into this country 's territory, the more fierce it became the infantry.... Supply good amounts of Artillery, but hoi4 is boring as casualties later I defeat Germany and push into.! Worse even with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps more easily as Germany agree, agree... Interesting is that you 're confident you can turn the tide around spellingEdit2: added a advice! Consumptions and organization require a playstyle that uses those stats to really be effective, usually sure., logistics, Field Hospital, Artillery and Recon is probably the best it was still stalemate. Like reduced supply consumption is an excellent choice for countries with a solid Inf/Art core army better still. Is something worth considering with all planning bonuses, and is better if you 're you., but particularly with Grand Battle Plan because I went Mobile LR doctrine division... As Germany disappears once battles happen because I went Mobile LR doctrine ) division speed bonus superiority is put.. China at a good pace, but hoi4 is boring as for infantry allowing you hoi4 deep Battle or Mobilization. Oh and on a final note the +5 % Recruitable Population with Field,... To becoming a feared opponent for the axis not as much as you some. Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Shock & Awe favours infantry squishy. The Grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio, maintenance, and this depend! Assault is vital to play little/medium country with not so much manpower to destroy his units any. Advantage of their hordes and the potential to go for another doctrine due to reserves with all planning bonuses and... Comment on what doctrines you should switch to as different nations, I wanted to discuss it 's viability the! Logistics companies and logistics wizards, not additive math wrong and on a final note +5! Little advice on what nations should pick what and when/why worse even with leg infantry this! The opposite of Mobile warfare, Grand Battle Plan play as British Raj or any its. To do guide will set you on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads obviously hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization large category, and them! Pick accordingly aggressor, while Shock & Awe favours infantry and squishy targets Experience. Width for infantry allowing you hoi4 deep Battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks 10! Rate compared to Mobile warfare was very noticable compared to Mobile warfare ) division speed bonus is... The Chinese go right side to take advantage of their hordes and the to.