1. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. I like Abandoned Factory, I think Middle East is trash. Hell even the FV4202 has a strong enough turret to confidently bounce long 75s and russian guns. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. But there almost no such maps in the game. In the early days I would have now I just think its better to grab a turtle and snipe, small and fast is for fun whenyou want to explore or get bored. And here comes the issue with uptiers. Panther 2s didnt disappear. Thank you for your attention and have a nice day! Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). Thats why it is so extremely annoying when you have to shoot the turret. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). Only switch to the 3rd auto gear if going down hills and on flat roads. Nope but you will have your own luxuries instead, the fact that you knew what he was trying to pull off and decided toplan his demise in advanceand he won't have aclue until its too late. Allied CAS i superior. panzer ii light tank military history. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? Not meta. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. Internal mods of higher tier vehicles are more durable, sometimes not even the engine starts burning if you shot a shell into the back of an rank 4 enemy. I want to see where you are shooting and with what cause even when i play the AMX M4 which has 215mm of pen btw I've never bounced off the side of a T series tank. Thats why you will often see lack of initiative and decisiveness on German teams. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. I am obviously not among the greatest pilots out there but I am decent from what I found on thunderskill and I have to say this is plain wrong. However it does not. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. @Loongsheepwell, except that you can just lolpen the entire front with APDS. Germany does have heavies before the Tiger, namely KV-1B, KV-II 754 and Churchill at 4.0 and KV-1C at 4.7, but they are premiums andeven if you can get them with warbonds, not everyone bothers with them. Only salt and betrayal.Thanks for watching!Subscribe for decent content next time (hopefully). The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. I'm a regular war thunder player if you want to contact me= discord= TelDu3998we also have our own discord server https://dis. Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. #warthunder #warthundermemes #warthunderfunny #warthunderclipsTwitch: Twitch.t. Thus then other nations get the impression that Germany is both OP, but still their players while about wanting better tanks. If by any standards the Panther is far more stable due to its suspension, what does that make the Sherman series, especially in a CQC situation where the medium low speeds are to its' advantage? Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. Like bombing out caps or sniper ridges. They die as soon as literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy free RP and SL. Still a lot more intuitive. The Tiger I is hard to play and inferior to the Panther! What? How is this true for any vehicles? But he still requires to go through your turret so mixing it up and not sitting is what's the best option to proceed at those ranges. The fast-paced and valiant opener marks a strong, excessive statement right at the beginning, because every detail fascinates: the riffing, the solos, the chorus, pick out whatever you want. According to the complaint, the mobility differential between the Germans tanks and the others tanks means that the Germans simply cannot compete in RB GFs. He usually has like 5 different options. According to the complaint, proof of German suffering is had in German win rates--which are often lower than their Allied peers WRs. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. Interesting thing about predicting the predictable itshighly accurate. Get comfy and ambush them,you said it yourself he has five options give him a sixth one he forgot, two places they'll never look behind themselves or above themselves or I guess threeif you count beingfar away. Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. (and enjoy the performance of APCR). That is basically telling your enemy "I am here" and to commit assisted suicide. Powered by Invision Community. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. In Panther? they turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. By The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. interactions? I think it's important to call out that there are a lot of different aspects to mobility. On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! There's only one brit 6.7 with atgms, but theres like 5 total with stabs and apds, Also no, the long 88 does not go through T__ tanks with ease, you have to shoot for weakspots which is quite difficultif the enemy is moving or at long range. He will retreat and find a way around you. 5. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. FRENCH ATGMS ARE NON-EXISTENT. Panther APCR should have the historical ~260mm of pen instead of the laughable 228mm of pen in-game, and so on. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. When it comes to the points I made about the armor, I have had my AMX-13 bounce off the side turret numerous times, it really is that thick. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. When you have 2 identical vehicles performing differently by a noticeable margin with the only variable being the people who play them, it really makes you wonder. Which means all you need to do is spot him first, then he's basically done for. You won't have the same luxury. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. A T34 hull down has 200-300mm of frontal protection, 150mm-200mm of side protection, and 200mm of rear protection. How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? The latter is mostly forgotten as in this gamewe currently only have a very basic steering system wherethey turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. Those things can shrug off even the 10.5 in close combat. But it will go as well as it would if American tanks went up to 6.7. Also the air tech tree actually is borderline OP too. The problem here is that Japan doesn't have a lot of players and thus meeting japanese aircraft is pretty rare in RB. Useful on certain maps. Allied CAS has way more firepower than Axis one. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. APDS is guaranteed damage, just aim for specific crew one at a time or shoot for modules. Pointing it down doesn't do anything as I've found. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. Still more enjoyable than japanese start off. It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. Any player should understand that, especially new players! Is this something that might see an actual improvement across the board for all players? But that doesn't change the fact that the tank have bad reverse speeds,, fit in with all the other bad aspects of the Panther in this game, like bad low speed movement due to the missing regenerative steering. Theres no reason why being put this tank agains opponents which pens it easy and having slow rate of fire to fight them. Many people think that this is a huge advantage the Americans have over Germany and Russia War Thunder T26E1-1 was probably scrapped after the war. Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. This leads to US players spamming the turret and thus smoking the gunners view. I haven't had a single game with Germany either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. NO 4.3 FRENCH TANKS? In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? And Germany has long 88s also at 5.7. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? Both the american 76mm and the russian 85mm will penetrate that front plate if not correctly angled. I don't feel I need assume such things as this is already quite relevant to my interests. The T28 is indeed scumy, not because its to op but because its almost the same tank as the T95 but at a lower br also the side armor thing matters a lot, this is a slow tank, THE slowest tank actually, the panther and tiger have enough speed to compansate for it unlike the HUGE top speed of 13 km/h that the T28. Thats because the Germans don't have more modern light tanks in the game. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. FW 190's can go for air targets and ordnance is sufficient to bomb a tank and strafe lights. But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. Armor. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. But yes, if manage to get in a flanking spot undetected you can flank with it. Germany's problem,at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. If you check old war images of M4 tanks, you will see that not all of them had turret mounted .50cals. The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. Download Free PDF View PDF. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. If the team melts, the team melts. Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. Another thing, soviet top tier vehicles are fully in meta, with T80B, T72A or T80U you get into action really fast, you have anti-panic shot armor layout, fast reload. Not meta. Denying that problem only makes it worse. FRENCH AVIATION TREE IS A JOKE! Not so long ago, when the update was released, I made a post that currently has over 3000 views . With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. German early jets are outperformed by pretty much by everything at their br. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. Not if you hang back in a position that overlooks the objective beforehand, you then can in fact ambush them as they try to cap as you'll know exactly where they'll show up and the M18 won't have a clue about your whereabouts. Download Free PDF View PDF. With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. Also .50 cals have too much pen, loosing light tanks and all sorts of AA vehicles to those is no fun, especially if other nation just have to rely on their main guns. No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. German CAS planes are generally heavy fighters, attackers, and bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are well equipped fighter bombers. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. So again, on the standard map with cap in the middle the Panther will usually be the last to arrive at the cap. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. He will command the rules of engagement and the battleground not you. I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. Simply replacing them with a JPz 4-5, Ru 251, or M41 could raise their combat effectiveness 5 fold, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. That jump is massive and not only deprives the player of the relevant experience they'd get in that 2.3 BRs of progression but also of the lineup for support they'd have if they had the stuff from the BRs in between, As with other nations, one death leavers are a problem for Germany. Is this what we might expect at some point? Weaponry, Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. Easier to spot in open terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed shot? Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? Kingtigers are best tanks for german tree even if it has nerf. If mobility was all that mattered, everyone would be driving around in M18s, M2A4s, A13s, BT-5s and R3s at every BRand yet they dont. Samuel Tito Pessa. Born Lucile Randon on 11 February 1904 in Ales, the world's oldest person. He was 60 years old. There is big IF in virtually every of your arguments. Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. They've been in the game for years so to state that they've dropped off the face of the earth is anything but true. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Back to the topic/question, could someone explain to me why AB's german players are willing to leave matches that haven't even gotten to the real brawling yet. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. And T are not impenetrable unless you're downtiered and there are spots you can go througg although theybare easily covered up. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. You don't want that then that is fine, noted. Yes, but just pointing out that "Japanese bias" has been used before. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. Doesn't fit good mobility meta. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. 7. If anything i insist you grind out to the T34 play about 100 games you'll tend to find that the two are rather close to compare. Well suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills. 4. It also means I don't need to drive around to flank you when I can justwait for a minute or twoand then proceed to shoot youonce I have visual. Join the Discord Here: https://discord.gg/cgctjTR5hjHope you all enjoy this video/short from an interesting moment in-game! While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. I take the 110G into every BR range before radar SPAA. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. Real German problem here---> East Germany, "Where's our tank? Which is situational and works only on several maps. Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. Uptiers are a pervasive issue for every nation at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. Side turret is 150mm or higher so angling is really easy as well. And if you talking about the swingfire it's not a good vehicle. This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. One of those is a premium, one of them was added literally last month and has an abysmal stock grind, and the last one is a terrible casemate TD that happens to be somewhat faster than a medium tank. And I've never lost my barrel to 50s ever in all the time I've played German tanks. Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. I never said the hull was bad on the t series i have stated that as long as you don't hit the tracks you pen and the other thread we are in has showed that. Long range eliminations tend to be how I foil most of the cappers I kill. This is the same reason I don't accept the "muh KV1-B" argument or "muh KV-220" because most players can't even use these vehicles. But only at long range. Clearly you haven't seen Gaijin's big maps from afar before. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. Better late then never, only took them 5 years to catch up. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. Be always aware of this. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. Well one or two not that much but a bit more and flying becomes more problematic. In a case of 1535,9 it was established that an individual who suffered particular damage over and above that inflicted upon the general population could maintain a separate action for damages. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. . And I've found that the damage output for apds is lacking I've put many rounds through tanks and if theirs more one rankits a problem as the one shot isn't likely. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. I wouldn't say its off topic at all, map friendly brawling options fallsintocategory's the suffering community thinks Germany needs and in the upper low MBT department East Germany is suffering as the tanks are missingaltogetherlike some other nationsvehiclesand that right there is the very definition of "Suffering". - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. Getting ahead is stupidly hard. Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. Meanwhile the M18 will be sitting in the ambush or going around the cap into your back because he know that you will not dare to cap. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. do we not have a tank yet? With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. And we can't skip over the SPAAs either when discussing counters against CAS. The game is based around combined arms battles on air, land, and sea with vehicles from the Great War to today. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" You cant carry against so many players. Also since ground ai. It's as hard to shoot a the turret of a tiger 2 as it is to shoot a T series turret. 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